Relationship Type "Engineer"
Link Phrases
artist engineered release or track
release or track was engineered by artist
artist audio engineered release or track
release or track was audio engineered by artist
artist sound engineered release or track
release or track was sound engineered by artist
artist live sound engineered release or track
release or track was live sound engineered by artist
artist mixed release or track
release or track was mixed by artist
artist recorded release or track
release or track was recorded by artist
artist mastered release or track
release or track was mastered by artist
artist edited release or track
release or track was edited by artist
These 2 are proposed:
artist engineered instrument on release or track
release or track has instrument engineered by artist
artist recorded instrument on release or track
release or track has instrument recorded by artist
etc.
artist engineered vocal type vocal on release or track
release or track has vocal type vocal engineered by artist
artist recorded vocal type vocal on release or track
release or track has vocal type vocal recorded by artist
etc.
Description
This relationship links a track or a release to the person who provided technical, engineering support for the project. There are several different kinds of engineering disciplines covered by this:
Engineered: This is the general type, used where the engineer had a general engineering role, where none of the below specialisations apply.
Audio Engineered:
![[WWW]](http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/-/musicbrainz/img/moin-www.png)
Audio Engineering concerns machines used to generate sound. This includes effects processors and digital audio equipment used to modify or manipulate sound in an analogue or digital form. Sound Engineered:
Acoustical Engineering is the art of making real life sound waves sound pleasant to the human ear. An acoustical engineer is responsible for ensuring that the sounds the artists make reach the microphones sounding pleasant, without unwanted resonance or noise. Live Sound Engineered: This is only appropriate for live recordings, and gives credit to the engineer who was responsible for the acoustic environment of the live performance.
Mixed: The mix engineer is responsible for the mixing console or whatever other equipment is used to mix recorded tracks into a single piece of music suitable for release. Note that RemixMeansDifferentThings, possibly all at the same time for a particular person on a particular track.
Recorded: The recorder is responsible for comitting the performance to tape. This can be as complex as setting up the microphones, amplifiers, and recording devices, or as simple as pressing 'rec' on a 4-track. This role often entails similar responsibilities to those of a Producer (see ProducerRelationshipType).
Mastered:
Audio mastering is the process of preparing and transferring recorded audio to a medium for future duplication. Edited: The editor is responsible for either connecting disparate elements of the audio recording, or otherwise redistributing material recorded in the sessions. This is usually secondary, or additional to the work done by the mix engineer. It can also involve streamlining a longer track to around the 3 minute mark in order to make it suitable for radio play (a "radio edit"). In many ways it is the audio-only equivalent of
film editing. This bit is proposed: All of the above can be further defined:
Engineered instrument on: This more specific version designates artists who engineered an instrument. Here you can specify the InstrumentRelationshipAttribute to state what instrument they engineered (see below)
Engineered vocal on: This more specific version designates artists who engineered the vocal. The particular vocal role can be specified in the VocalRelationshipAttribute.
This type is part of the ProductionRelationshipClass.
Relationship Attributes
"additional"
Additional engineering indicates a minor or subsidiary role (AdditionalRelationshipAttribute).
"co"
A credit of co-engineering (CoRelationshipAttribute) means that the person collaborated in their engineering duties, generally with another engineer (who would be given a co-engineer credit or, if their participation was deemed larger, an engineer credit), or the artist in question. This attribute only applies to the engineer and the mixer types.
"executive"
There are no guidelines yet for how the ExecutiveRelationshipAttribute applies here. This can only be used for the main engineer type.
The following 2 are a proposed amendment:
"instrument"
With the InstrumentRelationshipAttribute you can specify for which instrument or class instruments the person did the engineering.
"vocal type"
With the VocalRelationshipAttribute you can specify for which vocal type the artist did the engineering. Note that this attribute is optional, so if none of the vocal types is appropriate (eg, the artist engineered all vocals on the recording), you can leave it blank. (VocalRelationshipAttribute)
Examples
The Offspring's release Americana has the credits:
Engineered by
Bryan Carlstrom Assistant Engineer:
Annette Cisneros
In this case they both should have the general form of "engineered"; however, Annette Cisneros should have the "additional" flag as well.
Elis' release Dark Clouds in a Perfect Sky says in the liner notes:
Recording Assistants:
Martin Schmidt, Mathias Röderer and Thorsten Bauer
Here the "additional" flag is used to model Recording Assistants.
XP8's release HRS:MIN:SEC was mastered by Len Lemeire at the Implant Plant Studio in Gent, Belgium.
Michael Jackson's track One More Chance was edited by Jon Nettlesbey.
Discussion
This is a good example of where the difference between "additional" and "minor" isn't very clear. The Americana example uses "assistant", which could mean either of the attributes we have available.
I propose changing 'Recording Engineer' to 'Recorded By' - this is the most common phrasing of this role, and is a far better descriptive term, as it is not neccesarily an 'engineering' role - see Steve Albini, who is always credited as 'Recorded By' despite having an influence similar to that of a 'Producer'.
I also propose changing 'Mix Engineer' to 'Mixed By' - this is by FAR (99% of the time) the most commonly used phrase, and again is more descriptive. Mixing (in this sense) is as much about musical skills as technical skills, if not more so. Although I have on occasion seen it referred to as 'Mix Engineer', that is almost certainly describing the same thing. Personally my initial reaction to when I saw 'Mix Engineer' was "Where's 'Mixed By'? Is this the same thing?" and I expect that is the same for most people. It should be changed. --Gecks
Both these changes are now live!
I'm not sure what you mean when you say that someone doing the recording is not necessarily in an engineering role. How are you distinguishing between the two? A count of a random stack of roughly 20 CDs showed 14 credits for engineers and only 3 with recorded by; the others were uncredited. Also, recorded is used more in a sentence where the studio is mentioned "Recorded at AA Studios by John Doe" or "Recorded by John Doe at AA Studios". --WolfSong
Therein lies the problem with all credits - they are only meaningful within context, so it's best to just stick with whatever is written in the liner. For example, "Recorded By" is very often essentially the same thing as "Producer", but that has certain connotations that some "Producers" and indeed bands don't like to put forward. Eg, Producers can have an influence on the sound to the extent that is as much their release as the bands (see The Beatles, Albini, etc). Saying "Recorded By" is like saying "This guy recorded the release but on our terms". Also, producer doesn't neccesarily infer any technical involvement in the recording - it could be just saying "this sounds good"/"this sounds bad", and letting engineers do the technical stuff. "Recorded By" implies a certain amount of technical involvement.
Engineer...well again that can mean anything from Producer to a techie. I don't think it's correct to lump 'Recorded By' and 'Engineer' together, as Engineers are generally supporting primary Recorders/Producers, or perhaps the band themself (who could be doing the production/recording).
"Recorded By" is very common in indie rock type circles. Perhaps not so much elsewhere, but I think it is definitely worth indexing. --Gecks
You're mixing production arguements with engineering here and they are not the same. A producer and an engineer are two separate roles in the recording process. In some cases, the producer and engineer is the same person but they are still separate roles that should be defined separately. The titles themselves are not interchangeable.
- Producer
A person who oversees and is responsible for the delivery of a release.
- Engineer
A person who operates the soundboard and sets up the recording equipment.
--WolfSong
Right, but the problem is that they are credited haphazardly, meaning different things to different people. We need "recorded by" as there is no way of knowing whether or not this means 'engineer' or 'producer' when it appears on liner notes.
Interesting URL which explains why some "producers" would prefer "recorded by" -
http://citypaper.net/articles/101101/cs.mctear.shtml - I think we should respect this. Gecks I don't think they are credited hapazardly nor do I think it means different things to different people. Your statement that we need "recorded by" negates that a large number if not a clear majority of releases credit both a producer and an engineer. Pointing to a single article about one person who prefers not to be referred to as a producer is not a strong arguement IMHO. As a compromise I would suggest sticking with "recording engineered by".
I think they are and I think it does :P To summarise:
- Producer
Responsible for delievering release. May be responsible for record companies requirements as well as/more than the bands.
- Recorded By
Responsible for committing music to tape. More likely to be on bands terms than record companies. Likely to offer advice rather than demands. Concequently - may have more of an influence on sound than a producer would! May work with a producer or solo.
- Engineer
Has technical ability to place mics, operate mixing desks, etc. Implies no influence on sound.
Steve Albini is not a one off - he is easily the most prolific and idolised rock "producer". What he does others follow - I think the majority of rock releases on the western US circuit would be 'Recorded By', and you could argue that this means 'producer' or 'engineer' depending on the context. When discogs didn't allow 'Recorded By' only producer and engineer, I could never decided which. With Albini you could say 'producer' generally, but with an unknown you just didn't know what kind of input they had. --Gecks
On another note. Is there a reason to have both an audio, sound and recording engineer? This really doesn't make sense. One person would normally perform all these roles. I've never seen each one credited and as I stated earlier it's usually recorded or engineered with an occasional assistant. --WolfSong
I agree. I have never seen these written (that's not to say they aren't - maybe more likely in pop releases). --Gecks
Another problem with recorded by is that their assistant engineers on many releases. Using additional recorded by doesn't make sense grammatically. --WolfSong
More of a problem with our insistence on using every role in a sentence IMO! --Gecks
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